Newsome: "How do I get saved?"
Oldsome: "...if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."
Newsome: "That’s it?"
Oldsome: "Yes!" "And the good part is, once you’re saved, you’re always saved!"
Newsome: "I’ll do it, right now!!" "Jesus is LORD and I believe God raised Him from the dead!"
Oldsome: "Now, you’re saved!"
Newsome: "And I’m always saved? I can’t lose my salvation?"
Oldsome: "That’s right! You have eternal salvation!"
Oldsome: "You need to turn from any sinful ways."
Newsome: "What? But I’m still saved if I don’t, right?"
Oldsome: "Well…"
Newsome: "You said all I had to do was confess Him as LORD and believe God raised Him from the dead..."
Oldsome: "There’s more to it than that."
Newsome: "This sounds like a classic bait and switch. What else do I have to do?"
Oldsome: "Well, attend church every Sabbath, give 10% of all your earnings, read the Bible every day, pray every day, and a few more things like don’t drink or smoke, and so on."
Newsome: "That’s a lot. You said all I had to do was confess and believe. Then you added a bunch of things on after I got saved. I think I’ll just stick with the baseline salvation."
Oldsome: "Well, you have to do all those things to the best of your ability or you’re not saved."
Newsome: "You said I was saved. You said I was saved and you didn’t say there was anything else involved. Are you saying if I don’t like all the things you added, I’m no longer saved? You said ‘Once Saved, Always Saved’."
Oldsome: "You were never saved in the first place."
Newsome: "Did God know whether I would be saved from the day I was born?"
Oldsome: "Oh, Newsome, God knew whether you would be saved from the beginning of creation. The Bible says, ‘God knows the end from the beginning.’ " [Actually, it doesn’t.]
Newsome: "So, I don’t really get a say in the matter? I’m predestined?"
Oldsome: "No, because YOU don’t know it, it’s not predestination."
Newsome: "That’s an odd way to look at predestination. OK, then, can I change my choices?"
Oldsome: "Well, yes, but God knew you would change your choices."
Newsome: "So, if God knows whether I will be saved, it doesn’t matter what I think or do, I will be saved, or not, according to what God knows."
Oldsome: "Yes, I suppose that’s true."
Newsome: "Does God know everything HE will do from the beginning of the universe?"
Oldsome: [thinks a bit] "I suppose that’s true."
Newsome: "Can God Change his mind?"
Oldsome: "Of course!"
Newsome: "But if God already knows what his final decision will be, can it really be said he changed his mind?
Oldsome: "I suppose, to be consistent, we can’t really say God changed his mind."
Newsome: "So, if you’re right, God is predestined."
Oldsome: [puzzled look] "I never thought of that."
Newsome: "What good is a God who can’t change his mind to help his people, who can’t make any changes through answered prayer because he already knew whether he would or would not do it. He’s sort of a place-holder. He would be superflous."
Newsome: "So, I’ve been readin’ my Bible and it seems Chrstians all got baptized, and as I read it, it’s part of gettin’ saved."
Oldsome: "No, no, no!" It’s got nothing to do with getting saved. We’re saved by Grace, not by works, lest any man should boast."
Newsome: "Is obeying Jesus’ and the Apostles’ instructions a ‘work’?"
Oldsome: "Absolutely, If there is ANYTHING you have to DO to get saved, it’s a ‘work’."
Newsome: "But you told me I had to do a work to get saved."
Oldsome: "No I didn’t!"
Newsome: "Yes, you did. You said I had to say "Jesus is LORD," and "believe God raised Him from the dead!"
Oldsome: "That’s not a work unto salvation, that’s a … a… doing what Jesus asked you to do."
Newsome: "The same way getting Baptized is doing what Jesus asked me to do? Jesus said, ‘He who believes and is baptized shall be saved.’ Jesus tied it directly to salvation."
Oldsome: "But the rest of the verse says, ‘and he who does not believe will be damned.’ Jesus did not say, ‘he who does not believe and is not baptized will be damned.’"
Newsome: [chuckles] "I see what you did there, but why would someone who didn’t believe get baptized?"
Oldsome: "We Baptists view getting baptized as just an outward expression of an inward event."
Newsome: "I’m not finding that in my Bible. Were you saying earlier that getting baptized to be saved might make a person think he earned salvation, instead of just understanding it’s another thing Jesus asked us to do, like ‘confess" and ‘believe God raised him from the dead’?"
Oldsome: "That’s exactly what we believe. If you tie baptism to salvation, you might think you earned salvation."
Newsome: "Wow… [pause] You set the bar pretty low for earning salvation.
Oldsome: "Baptism is the next step in your walk of the Christian life."
Newsome: "I’m not finding that in my Bible either."
"I was reading in Acts about some guy named Philip. God took him to meet up with an Ethiopian in a chairot on the road.
Philip preached Jesus to him and he said, ‘Look! Here’s water! Why shouldn’t I be baptized."
Oldsome: "That’s a good example! Philip is showing him the second step."
Newsome: "But there's no mention of ‘the first step,’ and the guy didn’t rejoice until he was baptized."
Oldsome: "Well, moving to the second step of your Chiristian life is very joyful."
Newsome: "I don't see how it’s could be more joyful than getting saved. Still, Jesus said, ’He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. That’s not what you taught me."
Oldsome: "Well, our theologians have concluded baptism is not a part of salvation. Don’t you think they should know?"
Newsome: "I think Jesus should know."
Oldsome: "Well, the way we see it, if we can find a few verses that say what we think is the right theology, we can ignore any verses that say something different, or are difficult to understand. We don’t need to make everything written on the subject harmonize."
Newsome: "This Baptist stuff is all so confusing."
Oldsome: "It’s not as confusing as the Catholic stuff."
Oldsome: "Our pastor says, ‘The person who is not saved is not accountable’."
Newsome: "What? That doesn’t make any sense. Then why would anyone bother to get saved?"
Oldsome: "I don’t know. It’s what our paster said."
Newsome: "Well, if I’m not accountable, I’m not responsible, so I don’t need to be saved."
Oldsome: "You still need to be saved."
Newsome: "But only if God already knows I will be saved. And it will happen if he knows it. I don’t have to be concerned about it. If God knows I am not going to be saved, I can’t do anything to get saved. But your pastor says if I’m not saved, I’m not accountable… [hmmmm]"
Newsome: "Wait! If a person who is not saved is not accountable, how can there be any damning?"
Oldsome: "We can't presume to understand the mind of God."
Newsome: "Isn’t that what the Bible’s all about?"
Oldsome: "Um..."
Newsome: "What else did your pastor say?"
Oldsome: "He said You can’t be saved if Jesus doesn’t call you."
Newsome: "Well, of course. Because Jesus is predestined, too. He’ll call everyone God knew was going to be saved. Otherwise, it could get confusing."
Oldsome: "Our pastor also said, ‘We’re not saved until we jump.’"
Newsome: "You should tell your pastor the Bible says, ‘...if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.’ It doesn’t say anything about jumping."
Newsome: "Maybe your pastor meant ‘jump into the baptistery.’ "
Oldsome: "So, Newsome, do you know you’re saved?"
Newsome: "I hope I’m saved."
Oldsome: "HOPE?? You HOPE you’re saved? If you don’t know you’re saved, you’re not saved."
Newsome: "But you said I’m saved if I ‘confess with my mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in my heart that God has raised Him from the dead, I’ll be saved’."
Oldsome: "That’s right! If you did it, then you know you’re saved!"
Newsome: "But what if I’m not sure you’re correct?"
Oldsome: "Of course I’m correct, I got it right out of the Bible!"
Newsome: "Then the Apostle Paul wasn’t saved?"
Oldsome: "What are you talking about, Newsome? That’s crazy talk!"
Newsome: "Well, I’ve been reading some in my Bible…"
Oldsome: "Good! What did you read?"
Newsome: "In Ephesians, chapter 1, verse 12, Paul talks about his hope in Christ."
Oldsome: "Well, maybe you weren’t reading the Authorized Version." [pulls out his King James Version 1789 edition, thinking he’s got the 1611 edition] "It says ‘trust’ in Christ, not ‘hope’."
Newsome: "I didn’t realize the various translations were that different."
Oldsome: "Yes! In fact, you really need to be reading the Authorized Version! It’s the only one authorized by God." [holds out his KJV to the front pages which say "...by His Majesty's special commandment"]
Newsome: "It seems to say King James authorized it."
Oldsome: [looks the page up and down] "Nah! It says God authorized it ….somewhere in here… Well, no matter. It’s the only reliable version."
Newsome: "Oh. Well, OK, I guess."
Newsome: "Well, I was reading in 1 Thessalonians chapter 5 about armor of God or something, and it talked about my helmet being my hope of salvation."
Oldsome: "No, it doesn’t say that…" [turns to the verse in his KJV] "Well, it should say ‘trust’."
Newsome: "Well, in Romans 8:24, it says we are saved by hope."
Oldsome: "Incorrect!" [as he turns to the passage in his KJV, says] "We’re saved by gra… [stops mid sentence and screws up his face. Looks up to heaven for a moment.]
Newsome: "I also read that faith is the assurance of things hoped for."
Oldsome: "Where did you read that?"
Newsome: "I think that was in Hebrews? Chapter 11 maybe? I don’t remember the verse."
Oldsome: "Lemmie check my Authorized Version."
[turns to Hebrews 11 and sees the very first verse and reads aloud]
" ‘Now faith is the substance of things hoped for…’ Hmmmm…."
Newsome: "It seems to me that ‘knowing" sort of removes the ‘faith’ part of it. Whereas, hoping relies on faith. Like it says, ‘faith is the assurance of things hoped for’. Aren’t we supposed to rely on faith?"
Oldsome: "Um… of course!"
Newsome: "But you say if I hope I’m saved, I’m not saved."
Oldsome: [a little subdued] "Yes. You’ve got to be sure..."
Newsome: "… of what we hope for."
Oldsome: "Yes."
Newsome: "I’m so confused."
Oldsome: "So, Newsome…"
Newsome: "Yes?"
Oldsome: "How ya gettin’ on with your prayer life?
Newsome: "What’s a ‘prayer life’?"
Oldsome: "Your praying to God, silly."
Newsome: "I don’t really understand much about it."
Oldsome: "Well, you start a prayer by saying something like "Dear Jesus…’."
Newsome: "I’m confused…"
Oldsome: "Already? What could be confusing about that?"
Newsome: "Well, I think Jesus taught his disciples to pray to His Father."
Oldsome: "Well, we’re Baptists, we pray to Jesus. He passes it on to the Father as he feels he needs to."
Newsome: "So, we don’t pay to the Father?"
Oldsome: "Well, we can pray to the Father, but you can pray to either. Works just as well, ’cause they’re the same."
Newsome: "Huh?"
Oldsome: "Trivial detail. Say either ‘Dear Father’ or ‘Dear Jesus,’ then you say you praise him or something, then you ask for what you want, and say ‘in the name of Jesus, Amen’."
Newsome: "So, I pray TO Jesus...
Oldsome: "Yes"
Newsome: "In Jesus’ name."
Oldsome: "That’s right."
Newsome: "That’s kind of strange."
Oldsome: "You’ll get used to it."
Newsome: "Then,I say ‘I praise you,’ but I don’t actually get around to praising Him?"
Oldsome: "You’re not making sense again, Newsome."
Newsome: "Well, saying ‘I praise you’ is sort of like saying ‘I compliment you’ without ever expressing the compliment."
Oldsome: "I never really thought about it that way. So, you’re saying I should say something about him that I appreciate when I praise him. Hmmm… No one else does that. We all just say, ‘I praise you,’ or ‘I praise your name’."
Newsome: "Well, It seems to me you ought to say SOME sort of actual praise rather than the word ‘praise’. I think I read in Revelation that the angels flying around the throne say, ‘Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty’ or something."
Oldsome: "I’m not sure I can think of any particular praise. I’m going to have to work on that."
Newsome: "Well, saying what those angels say would be a good start."
Oldsome: "Wait a second, I’m supposed to be teaching you about praying."
Newsome: "Sorry. So, then I ask Him for something I want? And it doesn’t matter whether I ask Jesus or the Father?"
Oldsome: "That’s right."
Newsome: "But I’ve been readin’ my Bible…"
Oldsome: "Again? What did you find this time?"
Newsome: "Well, it seems that it always instructs you to ask the Father in Jesus’ name."
Oldsome: "Well, I suppose technically we’re supposed to ask the Father in Jesus’ name…"
Newsome: "Kind of like Baptism?"
Oldsome: "Huh?"
Newsome: "Nothing. So I ask the Father for whatever I want, say ‘in Jesus’ name’ and I get it?"
Oldsome: "That’s right!"
Newsome: "And that works?"
Oldsome: "Well… Sometimes God says, ‘no’."
Newsome: "Does he say, ‘no’ so you can hear him or does he answer in a dream?"
Oldsome: "No, it just doesn’t happen."
Newsome: "Well, maybe he just didn’t answer."
Oldsome: "Oh, God always answers. And sometimes He says, ‘Wait’."
Newsome: "How do you tell a ‘wait’ from a ‘no’?"
Oldsome: "If it happens later, it was a ‘wait’."
Newsome: "So you don’t know if it’s a ‘wait’ until it never happens?"
Oldsome: "You got it!"
Newsome: "That doesn’t make any sense."
Oldsome: "What do you mean?"
Newsome: "Well, you pray and either the thing happens or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t happen, it’s still an answer because it might happen in the future or it might never happen."
Oldsome: "That’s exactly right!"
Newsome: "So… that’s identical to not praying at all."
Oldsome: "But there’s a greater likelihood of it happening if you ask the Father for it."
Newsome: "I’m puzzled."
Oldsome: "About what, Newsome?"
Newsome: "How do you measure the greater likelihood of getting an answer by praying?"
Oldsome: "Some things you just got to accept on faith."
Newsome: "Hmmm… Well, if I don’t have any other choice."
Oldsome: "Take hart, Newsome! Your Father knows what you need before you ask Him!"
Newsome: "Well, that’s good news! He’s going to at least provide for my needs, right?"
Oldsome: "No, you still have to ask Him."
Newsome: "Well, that doesn’t sound like a good father. If I knew what my children needed, I wouldn’t make them ask for it, I'd just provide it."
Oldsome: "Well, maybe you’d just get spoiled children."
Newsome: "Huh? Well, um… So I ask the Father, and I get my needs met?"
Oldsome: "No, it still follows the ‘yes, no, maybe so’ answer process."
Newsome: "Didn’t I read in Matthew 7:8 that Jesus said, ‘everyone who asks receives’?"
Oldsome: "Yes."
Newsome: "Isn’t that a contradiction?"
Oldsome: "It might seem so, but we’re not to question the will of God. Everything has to be in line with the will of God."
Newsome: "So, if the thing I need is not in the will of God for whatever reason, I won’t get it?"
Oldsome: "That’s right."
Newsome: "None of that is even close to what I read in Matthew 7:7-11. It doesn’t say anything about it being in God’s will. It does say you still have to ask, for some reason, even though earthly fathers don’t require a child ask in order to get what he needs."
Oldsome: "Well, you have to have faith or you won’t get it. You have to ask in faith."
Newsome: "It’s getting even more complicated. So in addition to the the ‘yes, no, maybe so’ process, I have to have sort of a solid belief I’ll get it, or it won’t happen?"
Oldsome: "Yes."
Newsome: "So, I pray, and I really, really believe I’ll get it, and I’ll either get it, or I won’t."
Oldsome: "Correct."
Newsome: "And this makes sense to you?"
Oldsome: "Of course. You also have to abide in Jesus in order to get him to give you what you ask. That’s in John 15:7."
Newsome: "How do you that? It sounds like a metaphor."
Oldsome: "That’s a bit unclear, but I beileve that if you do what the theologians tell us to the best of your ability, and obey all Jesus commandments, you’re abiding in Him."
Newsome: "How likely is that to happen?"
Oldsome: [casts his eyes downward] "Uh…"
Newsome: "Have you ever had a prayer answered?"
Oldsome: "Oh, yes, all the time!"
Newsome: "Tell me about it!"
Oldsome: "I always ask for safe travels to our relatives, and we’ve never had any incident."
Newsome: "Ok… but don’t most trips by most people end up in no incident?"
Oldsome: "I suppose so."
Newsome: "Do you have any indisputably answered prayers?"
Oldsome: "Well, I got the flu really bad last year. I prayed and got well."
Newsome: "Immediately?"
Oldsome: "No, it took about two weeks."
Newsome: [frowns] "What else?"
Oldsome: "My sister had breast cancer. I prayed, and the cancer’s gone!"
Newsome: "So, she’s fit and back in shape?"
Oldsome: "No, the Chemo and Radiation treatments took a lot out of her. She spends most of her time at home in a chair in front of the TV."
Newsome: "I see."
Oldsome: "But I prayed that God would let the Doctors heal her, and she’s healed… or in remission. They can’t really tell."
Newsome: "Maybe that’s the problem."
Oldsome: "What do you mean?"
Newsome: "Maybe you insulted God by asking Him for the DOCTORS to heal her instead of asking God for HIM to heal her. Just a thought."
Oldsome: "I hadn’t thought of it that way."
Newsome: "I’m still struggling with the ‘yes, no, maybe so’ process."
Newsome: "Even though Jesus seems to say ‘whatever we ask, He will do for us,’ Paul didn’t even get all his prayers answered."
Oldsome: "I didn’t know that!"
Newsome: "Yes, Paul prayed to have a ‘thorn in the flesh’ removed and God refused, and he also had to leave Trophimus, sick in Miletus. I’m sure he would have prayed for him to be healed."
Oldsome: [stares, puzzled]
Newsome: "Still, even Jesus didn’t get His prayer answered when he prayed not to have to be crucified."
Oldsome: [stares, puzzled]
Newsome: "It all seems so contradictory."
Oldsome: "It does, doesn’t it?"
Newsome: "It seems there are so many rules and conditions to get a ‘yes’ answer, I should never expect one, and that in iteself is a reason I will never get one."
Oldsome: "So, Newsome, do you believe?"
Newsome: "Of course, I believe. I read the Bible and it’s starting to make a lot of sense."
Oldsome: "Well, that’s believing with your head. The demons do that."
Newsome: "Demons have heads?"
Oldsome: "Well, I mean, the demons believe the truth of the Gospel and Jesus Christ, but they’re not saved."
Newsome: "No, I suppose not. They don't have heads."
Oldsome: "That's not it! You gotta believe with your heart! Or you’re not saved."
Newsome: "Ah! That's it! Demons can't be saved because they don't have hearts."
Oldsome: "Stay with me on this, Newsome."
Newsome: OK. So, more requirements? You keep adding stuff to be saved."
Oldsome: "Well, it’s all part of the package."
Newsome: [Looks up in thought] "Is this summarized some place?"
Oldsome: "Like I said, you gotta believe with your heart."
Newsome: "Wait… You can’t literally believe with your heart. It seems like that's more of a metaphor."
Oldsome: "Metaphor, schmetaphor. You can’t just believe it up here… [points to his head]. You gotta believe it here! [makes a fist with his hand and thumps it over his heart]"
Newsome: "But in either case, you’re still believing it ‘up here’ [points to his head]. Your heart can’t literally believe it."
Oldsome: "I suppose you’re on to something there."
Newsome: "It seems you’re saying if I don’t get all emotional about my salvation, I’m not saved."
Oldsome: "That’s exactly it."
Newsome: "And yet, I always thought if you believed something ‘with your heart’ it simply meant you really believed it."
Oldsome: "That’s right, but it’s gonna show!"
Newsome: "Isn’t it possible such belief manifests in different people differently? I mean, we’re not all the same. In fact, we’re quite different from each other.
Oldsome: "But you gotta believe with all your heart to be saved. It says so in Acts 8:37."
Newsome: "Hmmm… My Bible doesn’t have Acts 8:37."
Oldsome: "Well, you’re Bible’s corrupt."
Newsome: "Ah! Here it is. In a footnote. It says that passage isn’t in some ‘manuscripts’."
Oldsome: "I don’t know about that."
Newsome: "But it says if I believe with all my heart, I can be baptized. It doesn’t say if I believe in my heart, I can be saved."
Oldsome: "Well, Romans 10:9 says, "…if you believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."
Newsome: "So, if you take the two verses together, it seems to indicate being baptized is part of being saved."
Oldsome: "Don’t go there again. I already told you…"
Newsome: "Just tryin’ to make the two verses fit together."
Oldsome: "You gotta believe in your heart to be saved and you gotta believe in your heart to get baptized."
Newsome: "Seems like it makes sense to do all the believin’ at the same time, get baptized and be saved. You know, like it says they did in Acts 2:38."
Oldsome: "Humph! Those instructions were only for those folks on that day."
Newsome: "If you say so. Back to my heart. How do I know if I believe with all my heart"?
Oldsome: "Well, when you do, you know it."
Newsome: "That’s pretty subjective. What if I think I believe with all my heart, but I only believe with 87 percent of my heart?"
Oldsome: "How do you know it’s only 87 percent?"
Newsome: "Well, isn’t an Angel or someone keeping track?"
Oldsome: "The Bible doesn’t say anything about someone keeping track."
Newsome: "But if I can only be saved if I believe with all my heart, it seems it should be important someone is keeping track. Otherwise, how do I know if I’m saved?"
Oldsome: "You just know."
Newsome: "How does God know if I’m saved?"
Oldsome: "He just knows."
Newsome: [Raises one eyebrow]
Newsome: "It seems to me that if I follow what the Bible tells me to do to be saved, I should be saved."
Oldsome: "Well, that’s what I’m telling you."
Newsome: "But I shouldn’t have to be concerned with ‘how much’ I believe. I mean, if I believe, I believe. It seems a person’s faith, his confident belief, would grow the longer he’s believing, studying, and learning."
Oldsome: "Sometimes you kind of make sense, Newsome."
Newsome: "Thanks, I think. The way you were saying ‘You gotta believe in your heart’ it’s like saying if someone else doesn’t think I act enough like he did when he got saved, I’m not saved. I think it’s kind of between the person and God, as one finds the truth in the Bible."